Lack of cabin ventilation

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nomis	Lack of cabin ventilation		Lead	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 29 Sun, 1-Nov-2009 22:17	Tags : None I picked up my Mantula coupe today and drove back in pouring rain . I expected the Marcos to steam up but the influx of steam into the cabin when I hit standing water was a bit of a surprise! The drive was enjoyable despite all this and was certainly memorable. A later outing, along the local B Roads, once the rain had subsided confirmed that the cabin has a flow of hot air through from the engine bay and the only way to drive the car is with the windows open....good job there is a sun roof! So one of my first jobs is to seal the bulkhead and install a fresh air supply to the existing eyeball vents on either side of the dashboard. (The car had aircon when built in the factory, which has been removed, hence the eyeball vents with no pipes and the holes in the bulkhead) Can anyone with a Mantula (with a good supply of fresh air to the cabin) describe or post photos of where and how to route supply pipes , where to take a supply from etc, preferably as the factory spec. No details were shown in the Build Manual, that I could find. thanks Simon
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brian coleman		#1	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 282 Mon, 2-Nov-2009 06:53 Apprentice mechanic	Youhave a sunroof? you lucky, lucky b....d We take birch twigs with us in the summer and beat ourselves whilst stuck in traffic jams!
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Martyn123		#2	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 187 Mon, 2-Nov-2009 08:51	Hi, I too look forward to my first drive, but it certainly won't be in of that wet rain !! Wondered do you have the vents at the rear which is bascially two pipes each side of the boot hinge's that lead out into the rear wheel arch area, not seen these on any others any may help in passing air through and out the cabin, Regards, Martyn Where's the fun in biscuits if there's always biscuits in the tin.
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bigbore		#3	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 26 Mon, 2-Nov-2009 17:05	hi, I have an LM500 and have exactly the same problem, the air vents areconnected so have never found the cause. The trip from darlington to gloucester was enjoyable but I am glad its only ..every 50 years
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HYDRAULIC1	AIR VENTS	#4	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 130 Tue, 3-Nov-2009 21:23	I have the same air vents in my dash i believe they are triumph dolamite vents, as i see it You can get some air ducting to clip over the vent tails and bring them together behind the dash board at the glove box, or behind the gauge panel then use a tee that fits the ducting to join them from this tee you can run some ducting through the bulkhead wall using a correct size grommet for the o.d of the ducting, once into the engine bay, find a route it to the front of the car away from the heat of the engine, if you have the room you can clip or tie wrap it to the left hand side top chassis rail and drop it down the rail behind the rad and into one of the front body holes where the spot lights fit or behind the centre grill, you can get a small air scoop that has a tail on it to act as a air intake, this way while driving cold intake air will be fed into the tube and by opening the vents in the car should get some decent ventlilation when the windows are closed, and hopefully if you have routed it away from the exhaust pipes you should not get fumes or hot air entering the tubes, car builder solutions or europa car part carry all sorts of ducting and tube to do this hope this helps rgds hydraulic 1
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OldNoccer		#5	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 842 Wed, 4-Nov-2009 00:05	Mine is an ex-aircon late Mantula with the main inlets hoses getting to the cabin over the passenger footwell (earlier ones had a big hose coming in the middle of the bulkhead). The plumbing I have behind the dash is a one off- snakes nightmare with in line blower fans which I think came from Merlin motorsport. It turns out the system I have outside the cabin spends much too long in the engine bay and I have been roasted in the summer - especially when stuck in traffic. The only answer IMHO is to route the duct via the N/S wheel arch - which is something I am working on., and I have seen on other cars - though it limits the duct size. You should not get loads of steam in from splashing in the engine bay/exhausts, so there is a leak somewhere, or the air is coming in from a bad location. On mine the main location for such a sudden ingress is where the heater unit fits into the passenger footwell, there is a gap inboard, that has loads of silicon in it. I made a big mistake last year trying to short circuit the heater hoses in case the vacuum heater valves was not working - as I was getting so hot ! I ended up with a leak which pissed hot coolant onto the passenger floor on my way to Silverstone for the Trax day. It was raining and the car steamed up a lot, so I blamed it on water leaks to start. But I was glad I didn't take it on the track as it turned out most of the engine coolant was sloshing around in the passenger well. All of that dropped straight down from the heater hose connections. It should be cosy in the cabin in the winter, and unless you leave it outside it shouldn't be too bad for damp inside. The V8 is a great heater/dryer. You can however get leaks around the front edges of the doors. It can sometimes be a little misty to start so I have screen vents and heated front screen - between them they will fix anything. I don't know if this helps, but you are welcome to look over mine anytime. I hope to be down at the NEC in two weeks woth it. Steve There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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Jack		#6	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1523 Wed, 4-Nov-2009 13:51 Guru mechanic	Big Bore - if you have an early LM500 with a short passenger footwell... the cabin air intake is behind the front nearside wheel in the bottom of the bodywork parallel with the ground - you should find a load of holes in the panel. This leads into the space inside the arch and from there is another intake into the airbox - which is controlled by the interior air selector. I can not find any route out from the cabin and also find that in the cold the car steams up in traffic (if the AC is off and the hardtop on) - but quickly clears when moving.
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CF Mantula		#7	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 1494 Fri, 6-Nov-2009 11:09 Minor mechanic deity	I had the same problem in Le Mans 2003 and it was unbelievable hot inside. Winter 2003/2004 overhauled the car completly and did change 2 things. Having the engine & gearbox out did fit for the complete front of the fiberglasbody head protecting folia - normally for race cars / turbo´s and so on - with the drivetrain out of the chassis quite a simple work to glue it to the body (footwells, bukhead ...), because we made a frame off restauration we glued the material as well inside the complete gearbox tunnel. This is only possible if you have the body off the frame. We used: http://www.isa-racing.com/product_info.php/info/p5544_Alubeschichtete-Hitzematte.html It gives protection up to 600 Celsius , price is around 30 € p/qm and surely available as well in UK. Later you have as well to glue this material on the inside of the gearbox cover. Very, very important is to take a headresistent glue!! Pics on request. With this you get nearly all the heat from the exhaust system, drivetrain out of the Mantula. It is very effective, but in winter it becomes quite cold and I have problems to get the temperature high enough for my wife. Second we canged the fresh air system. My Mantula was the first with air condition and the air condition heating system was mounted under the rear windscreen, because of the extermly long pipes (6 mtr.) it never did work as it should. I got the car without a running air condition, but decided to take the remaining parts of the air condition (fans & radiator) under the rear windscreen as heater only. So had the bulkhead free from any heating system and installed instead a inline blower from a marine shop using the existing 6 air vents (3 on each side). This blower transports unbelievable quantitiy of fresh air and I had problems that capacity of fresh air is so high that it opened a bit the doors at higher speed. So had to fit as well additional air outlets in the rear. Since changing these things no heat problems inside at all. The inline blower you will find in EBAY for around 20 pounds new. Search for Bilge Blower. After 5 years would say most efficient thing I did change on my Mantula beside the EBC race brakes. CF Mantula
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nomis		#8	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 32 Sat, 7-Nov-2009 00:47	Haven't checked the forum for a few days so good to get some useful replies, especially as I am planning to implement some ductwork over the weekend. Reassuring that you can insulate the cockpit with heat protecting foil. I'd love to follow your example CFM but it might be extreme to remove the body at this stage! I have bought some foil from Rory to seal some of the holes in the bulkhead as a start. These holes are leftover from the air con which in my case I was lead to believe was situated at the front of the engine bay. There were two large ducts (from press shots of the car) that ran transversely across the bulkhead. One I think ran through a hole in the pedal box, ducting air into the footwell. The other I think went through the bulkhead which now allows hot air (and occasionally steam) directly from the engine bay, under the mataray. This heats up the cabin into a rather smelly oven....I am hoping that bocking the redundant holes in the bulkhead with foil should sort this. Any recommendations for the best heat resistant glue. Clear Silicon has been suggested, which has the advantage that it is easily removed from panel work. I also pulled out the redundant radio today. I wasn't that surprised to find that the radio cassette (circa 1983) is all that separates the instrument panel from the outside! this means that the radio is in a baking hot (and wet) environment. Can't imagine a new unit would last long. This lack of heat shield might be because it was an early car or maybe some shielding was removed. Anyone got any knowledge on this? Is there a fibreglass panel I am missing or am I going to have to get creative with more heat resisting foil? As for ducting fresh air directly to the eye ball vents I am going to follow your suggestions hydraulic 1. I have bought some 1+3/4in duct. I located some clips from europa following your suggestion, just need to locate the grommets and an air scoop suitable for the Mantula . Looking through the Brooklands road test book I found an early 1800 reviewed in Motor, June 1965 with a neat air scoop fitted directly to the air inlet below the bumper, with an inline fan feeding the cabin with fresh air. I'll try and rig up something similar.. Any sources/references for a good scoop would be useful... thanks for the comments so far - Simon
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purplehaze	Protecting the radio	#9	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 26 Sun, 8-Nov-2009 10:12	Hi Nomis I was worried about the radio location in my rebuild. That area was also vulnerable to noise, fumes and water penetration. I made an aluminium closure plate to go horizontally over the gearbox and angle up to form a bulkhead behind the central console. I cut a slot in the bulkhead for the back end of the radio and fixed a fully enclosed aluminium box behind it which projects over the bell housing. The box is rather oversize as I could not work out accurately how much room was actually needed for the back end of the radio and cable connections. Still can't work out how to stabilise the radio which just projects through the console.
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nomis		#10	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 33 Sun, 8-Nov-2009 23:37	Ducting to fresh air vents completed this w/end. The air intakes are now located either side of radiator and take air from the intakes either side of the numberplate. they produce a good flow of fresh air to the cabin. I have sealed the holes in the bulkhead and this has curbed the flow of hot air up through the engine bay and through the gap between the dash and the Mantaray- all good stuff. The Marcos is really easy to work on and the advice I have had has been invaluable - cheers! Much more fun than a TR! Took the Mantula for a spin and my modifications seem to work well. The cabin was actually cool and in today's damp the windscreen misted a little, so now I just need to sort the heater/blower, which blows noisily, but in true Marcos style the vents in the ply under the mantaray do not line up with the leather covered mantaray and the flow and return are not contected! (and this was a factory built car).....I can't see how I could cut out new holes in the ply without removing the windscreen. As the windscreen seals are painted in the body colour it might be easier to to alter the manaray, but I want to keep all the original parts for posterity. For these reasons I'd rather source a secondhand Mantaray and recover it. Any one got a spare they will part with? As for the radio - having revealed all the ply and softwood behind the dash I am thinking of making a ply or fibreglass casing to keep the radio/CD clear of the elements and heat. I think it could be fixed to the back of the central console but I'll have to dismantle the console to work out the details. Some heat resisting cloth is likely to help...the alternative seems to be the arrangement purplehaze has rigged up. cheers Simon.
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OldNoccer	Have just had my radio out - it is not exposed to the elements	#11	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 865 Sun, 22-Nov-2009 14:06	The radio shouldn't be exposed to the elements - my 1991 Mantula has a thin fibreglass cover panel that fits the top of the tunnel and has a radio recess. I apologies for the quality of the photo - but doesn't your look like this ? Now I have got to mine I can see why I was having problems raising the gearbox in order to fit new mounting rubbers - the hole has been cutout in the wrong location, and the springs on the front are forced up against the panel. I'll have to drill out the pop-rivets and remove the trim. Still its a part of the car I haven't looked at yet and I want to find out what is in front of that panel. There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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nomis		#12	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 36 Sun, 22-Nov-2009 20:44	Steve, thanks for posting this photo. Seems like the panel shown in your post has long gone on my car. I attach a photo of my solution - before and after - built without the benefit of seeing your arrangement beforehand. Briefly I have built a ply enclosure for the radio which I bonded with fibreglass matting to the centre console (which lifts off). I have sealed the gaps between the chassis rail and the space behind the dashboard with heat resisting cloth as best I can. The missing panel explains the amount of heat from the exhaust which resulted in a continuous draught of hot air and sometimes steam into the cabin. Hopefully my sealing work with heat resisting cloth will work. cheers Simon.
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nomis		#13	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 42 Tue, 24-Nov-2009 22:45	Looking more closely at the photo of Steve's car there is a lot less fibreglass panelling in my car between the centre console and the gearbox as well as behind the radio. My car was a very early V8 with the window switches and the controls for the heater mounted on the vertical face of the central console - the black panel in your car would foul on these controls. Having seen Steve's pictures I might revisit this area at a later date and try and construct a similar panel in fibre glass that doesn't foul on these controls, or the new boxing I have fabricated for the radio... Took a drive tonight and the new set up works well, less heat transfer (and noise) from the engine bay, fresh air from the vents and only a little steaming up in the rain.....the soundtrack from the V8 still sounds good, not sure I'll use the radio much!
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OldNoccer	Here's a bit better photo	#14	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 875 Thu, 26-Nov-2009 23:40	One thing leads to another - so I started out to fit a radio, and now I have a lot of the insides ripped out and I am attempting to remove the tunnel cover - which is mightily well stuck down. My objectives are now : a) Expand the hole in the tunnel cover so it clears the gearchange springs b) Raise the gearbox a fraction and get the gearbox support bracket above the chassis brackets (couldn't do this when I replaced the mounting rubbers due to snap-crackle-pop from the tunnel) c) Bring the gear knob 1" closer to me - by reversing the gear lever, or bending it the opposite way.. d) Seal the tiny gap above the radio with some gaffer tape. d) Oh - yeah - fit the radio ! In seeking to undo one riddle, and find the true, I knit a hundred others new.
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OldNoccer		#15	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 877 Fri, 27-Nov-2009 23:31	Now its like yours (was) In seeking to undo one riddle, and find the true, I knit a hundred others new.
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nomis		#16	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 48 Sat, 28-Nov-2009 17:37	That galv chassis looks good! I thought that fitting the radio would be a simple task - It took me hours in the end and included removing the old electric aerial, threading the aerial wire under the car, fibreglass repairs to redundant fixing holes etc as well as the protective boxing for the radio. I have also had to wire in the supply. I found some new speakers that fit the original appatures but the original speakers sound better in the bass department. All good fun and I have resolved some of the heat transfer into the cabin to boot. I stuck heat resistant material on the underside of the dash and the side panels in the hole behind the radio as well - All the crawling under the car and twisting to get into the recesses has done for my back! Next job is to sort out the glovebox which is made of cardboard and that useless catch but I'll start another thread....
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OldNoccer		#17	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 882 Sat, 28-Nov-2009 23:50	I have an electric aerial too, but given the fibreglass body of the car is invisible to the radio signal, I plan on trying one inside the car. I was going to try across the boot lid, but I suspect the signals have a vertical polarisation, however I still think there is a fair chance that you don't need an external aerial in a fibreglass car. I would happy to hear what other say. Steve There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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nomis		#18	[url]	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 53 Mon, 30-Nov-2009 23:27	I replaced the electric aerial with a neat fixed black device from Halfords. It is flexible with a corkscrew twist at the base. It seems to work, as I can get stations on FM no problem - not usual in our area. It also suits the car - there is a press shot of a blue mantula spyder on an 80's brochure with one in the same position as the existing one : see http://myweb.tiscali.co.u...tula/1985-02-Mantula.pdf
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Lack of cabin ventilation

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