Can anyone tell me what a Mulberry Fabrications baffled sump does and how it gives improved ground clearance. I have speed bumps on my road and am looking to
buy a Mantula.......
Sump clearance on V8
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 nomis |
Sump clearance on V8 |
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Posts: 1 Fri, 25-Sep-2009 14:17 |
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 782 Fri, 25-Sep-2009 20:46 |
I have never heard of such a sump, but speed bumps are awful things designed to make people really mad. My Mantula will just go over normal height ones
provided I am creeping - the problem is not the rise, but the suspension compression as you drop off which can bottom out the sump. It gives an almighty bang
and you wonder if there will be oil all over the road - my sump is fortunately reinforced with a welded steel plate, but it can't be good for it. This
assumes they are a full bump, and not those lozenge ones designed to kill motorcyclists. For those it is more tricky. I always try and put one wheel on the
hump.
What really annoys me is that round our way they don't have signs saying - Alternative route avoiding speed bumps - they do that for low bridges, I think they should do it for road humps, especially when its on a main road. Its also something that these GPS navigators should offer - route avoiding speed bumps. That would be worth having - as I had to move a mercury barometer in my Land Rover the other day and my sister leant me her Tom-Tom to get me to the new house - and the damned thing took me down one of these speed bump roads - and I had to go at 0.1mph to avoid the mercury busting out of the thing - it took forever. Sorry - but you touched a nerve. My engine is stroked to 4.5 litre - I dare say the sump is as shallow as the crank will allow - but if there is a shallower option then I am all ears - provided it is steel and really reinforced, as an ally sump will crack if banged - and it will happen.
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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 jomeo69 |
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Posts: 34 Fri, 25-Sep-2009 22:06 |
A baffled sump is like this :
http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6193 Ok the guy on here is making a baffled sump for a chevy i believe, but the principle remains to a certain extent. To have baffles in a sump it means it basically has compartments (or Trapdoors in this case, on the forum) inside the sump which prevent the oil sloshing/surging around inside the sump under heavy breaking, cornering or accelerating and being moved away from the oil pickup. These are generally used for race cars due to the heavy G forces involved and the need for constant oil pressure. Although you are talking about a lowline sump. these take the shape of the standard sump and cut the main section on the bottom in half i think, to reduce the height of the sump. A section is then welded on the back behind the original lump to keep the volume in the sump correct. with this option the oil pickup pipe has to be modified but if your buying a lowline sump then a simple purchase of a modified oil pickup will solve things. There are many manufacturers of lowline sumps for the Rover V8. Best idea is to post on the V8 forum to find a specific manufacturer. HTH Joe |
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 783 Fri, 25-Sep-2009 22:58 |
I thought race cars had dry sumps - maybe there is a dry sump option for the Rover. That would give maximum clearance.
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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jomeo69 |
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Posts: 35 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 07:39 |
oh forgot to mention that as well. due to their nature dry sumps have greater clearance. but this is the much more expensive and complicated option.
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nomis |
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Posts: 2 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 10:57 |
Thanks for the replies - This is my first topic on the forum and it has been terrifically informative in a short time. There is no way of avoiding the speed
humps on our lane as there are two in each direction that lead to the main roads. It is used as a rat run hence the humps....I have just measured all 4 humps
which are 3.8m wide with varying high point at the centre - from 4in to 5in (100 - 125mm) They also vary across the width of the road. I have been advised that
a Mantula has 4 inch clearance which agrees with the contemporary car reports from the Gold portfolio book. So with some judicious driving I think the Mantula
will not foul them.
The low points on a marcos seem to be the sump and the seat recesses which are lower than the floor plan. I wonder if anyone has ripped the seat out of their trousers whilst traveling at speed? Terrifying thought! Has anyone had problems grounding the seat protrusions on speed bumps of this or any other type? The baffled sump reference came from an ad on the Forum for a Mantula posted by zingo 16th August with a reference to "great ground clearance" I presume it is a case of draining the engine oil, unbolting the original sump and bolting the new one on with a new seal? Any ideas how much the clearance can be gained? |
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nixfix |
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Posts: 239 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 11:25 Senior mechanic |
Never had any trouble with the sump from speed humps, as it sits between the wheels so naturally gets lifted (unless you're careless and drive right over a
pillow hump with your wheels in the dip either side.
The points I normally hit were the end of the exhaust manifold (headers), and the silencers on exit - there were some scrapes evident on the seat pans, but I don't recall having hit them myself on the humps. If you're concerned about the seat pans, I would stick some sacrificial thin aluminium sheet under there, so that gets the damage, not the fibreglass. As long as you take it real slow, you should be fine. |
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 784 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 17:12 |
I have just measured my Mantula sump and I have 59mm clearance with no-one in the car (just under 2.5 inches in old money). The sump looks like a standard one,
but with a plate welded on, and I think you can just make it out in the photo (its rather blurred - exhaust pipe is closest). It is not between the wheels, but
immediately behind them, so can easily ground when you come down off a speed bump. I find I have a receipt for a RangeRover sump from the previous owner, so I
guess that is what it is.
Maybe I should change for a different sump, but that is how it came and it is on standard tyres on 14" wheels, with standard ride height (actually it is a tiny bit higher than I would like at the front, but I can't afford to lose any more clearance - especially in the middle of the car as the exhaust just about touches as I go over the pavement into my drive. To improve that I really need a different sort of gearbox mount so the exhaust can be tucked up a little.
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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HYDRAULIC1 |
BAFFLED SUMP | #8 | ||
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Posts: 122 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 20:53 |
i have just fitted a baffled sump from mulburry it gives me at least another 50 mm clearance 6 ltr capacity and has swing hinged doors inside you get new
pickup pipe and well finished they say to install wilth silicone gasket but i used standard cork type
with a smear of silcone excellent results cost £320 with vat and delivery i have another mantula and have found a guy in scotlant that makes a baffled st/steel sump delivered for £240.00 3 mm st/steel awaiting delivery now will comment later rgds hydraulic 1 |
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 788 Sat, 26-Sep-2009 23:24 |
This is very interesting - but no-one has mentioned the dip-stick. Presumably you need a new dipstick matched to the new sump ?
Steve
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 789 Sun, 27-Sep-2009 10:56 |
A few extra factoids - steel reinforcing on the sump might just save the problem of the sump plug touching when the sump grounds. The impact is right direction
to undo it, and I see people who have experienced their (TreVoR) sump plug fall out say to change to a round plug from the hex one. They also advise
immediately stopping and checking the sump plug if you ground the sump on a speed bump (and marking it with paint so you can see if it has moved).
I see JED also do a trapdoor sump for £345, but I don't know that it gains you any clearance. I could sure do with some more clearance - but £300+ - ouch ! So very interested to hear about this £240 sump. I also found a dry sumped race 3.5 V8 engine for sale complete for £1500 (link) - I wasn't aware that you could dry sump the earlier engines, so I wonder how it has been done. Steve
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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jomeo69 |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 36 Mon, 28-Sep-2009 15:36 |
Steve.
Yes the dipstick will need shortening if the sump is chopped and lengthened. But some new baffled & increased capacity sump kits come with them or have descriptions of how to shorten and by what amount with them. HTH Joe |
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OldNoccer |
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Posts: 794 Mon, 28-Sep-2009 19:32 |
Another factoid - I decided to mooch through Des Hammills book on tuning the V8 to see how dry sumping works, but discovered this info : The most you can
sensibly reduce the depth of the wet sump is 1in/25mm - reason being "There is no point whatsoever in making the base of the sump shallower than this
because the bellhousing then sticks out below it".
I haven't checked his measurements - but a fair point I would say !
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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purplehaze |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 24 Mon, 28-Sep-2009 19:57 |
Mr Hammill is correct. My sump has been reduced, not sure how much, and the bell housing is lower. There is a plate welded on to ramp over the step! The job is
not a pretty sight.
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HYDRAULIC1 |
re sump | #14 | ||
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Posts: 123 Thu, 1-Oct-2009 20:21 |
have today recieved new 6 ltr st/steel sump you do not need to shorten the dipstick it comes with new pick up pipe and baffled sump and is in 316 st/steel
supplied by coded welder in scotland cost £240.00 anyone needs pictures please email me at sg2@blueyonder.co.uk and i
can forward them excellent well pleased rgds hydraulic 1
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HYDRAULIC1 |
re dip stick | #15 | ||
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Posts: 124 Mon, 5-Oct-2009 19:10 |
Note the dipstick on the sumps i have purchased do not need to be shortened it fits in excatly the same place not bootom in the pan due to the 45 deg entry
angle and the sump carries 6 ltrs of oil not like the oild one which is 5 ltr as standard
ground clearance you can gain at least 45 mm rgds hydraulic 1 |
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OldNoccer |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 806 Mon, 5-Oct-2009 23:21 |
Have just crawled around in the garage and found Mr Hammill and Purplehaze are on the money. The maximum I could increase my sump clearance without it being
higher than the bellhousing is only about 15mm - any more would leave the bellhousing as the lowest point, and far better to ground on my steel reinforced sump
than on the bellhousing, which would no doubt smash. This is even less then Hammill says, so maybe my sump has already had a little panel beating before the
steel protector plate was welded on, or maybe Mr Hammill was referring to the SD1 sump as I understand the Range Rover sump is 10mm shallower for starters (and
thicker steel).
Maybe the bellhousing can be machined away, in fact maybe some cars have different bellhousings - as I can't see any way that a 45mm shallower sump won't mean the leading edge of the bellhousing jutting down waiting for crunch time.
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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HYDRAULIC1 |
RE BELLHOUSING | #17 | ||
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Posts: 125 Tue, 6-Oct-2009 19:20 |
old noccer if you wish to send me an email i will send you pictures showing the baffled sump fitted and the protection guard
that comes on the sump to protect the bellhousing ,the base of the sump is made of 3 mm stainless steel with baffle plates i have fitted one only last saturday looks good and give you more than 15 mm clearance, out of interest when racing with a winged baffle sump most people cut away the overhang of the alluminium bellhousing as it does not do much anyway when coupled to a marcos engine email sg2@blueyonder.co.uk rgds hydraulic 1 steve |
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cleughless |
jed sump | #18 | ||
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Posts: 2 Mon, 12-Oct-2009 15:36 |
Th john eales sump comes with its own windage plate and new pick up pipe with gasket.Its very slightly shorter but not so as you would notice but its made from a range rover sump ie, much thicker steel(off road, 4x4 etc).You fit it with the dip stick in place and modify windage plates to accept said dipstick in original position. there is no rear reinforcement plate as on the original rover sump. i fitted rorys dont bottom coilovers but the car looks too high to me. |
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madcarpenter |
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Posts: 1 Tue, 13-Oct-2009 11:23 |
Forget about the sump drain plug - if your drain plug is on the offside of the engine, which is the standard position as far as I know, and has a right hand
thread, ditto, then grounding it going forwards would tighten it up, not loosen it.
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OldNoccer |
Sump plug | #20 | ||
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Posts: 820 Tue, 13-Oct-2009 21:38 |
Nope - normal position of the drain plug is nearside (in UK where we drive on the left). Is yours the other side ? Left hand side undoes !
My car at the moment pisses oil out of the front cover if you fill the dipstick to the high mark, when I fill it with the required amounts (including oil filter) it comes up to half way up the dipstick - so I think mine is too short. Many years ago I had a problem the other way around and my P6 Rover ran out of oil - this is a very important issue, as the oil pump is not self-priming. Steve
There's a lot of talk these days about green transport. Well, I am ahead of the game, I already have green transport ... British racing green.
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